Showing posts with label Mourant. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Mourant. Show all posts

Monday, 7 June 2021

Our Payn Family in the Jersey Censuses

Recently I have been tracing my Payn family in the census documents for Jersey in the Channel Islands. My 2X-great-grandparents were Thomas Payn and Elizabeth Mourant, who had seven children. As it turns out, most if not all their living descendants are from our numerous New Zealand branch, descended from their fifth child Francis Davis Payn, who was born in 1854.

Thomas Payn and Elizabeth Mourant

In the 1841 census (found on Ancestry, as are all the census documents quoted below) we find both Elizabeth and Thomas living in St Martin Parish, Jersey, before their marriage. This census has a simpler format than later ones, and no house names or addresses are listed, and no relationships to the head of the household are described.

Elizabeth, 19, is living in a household with another Elizabeth Mourant, who is probably her mother, and she is described as a School Mistress. Her father is not listed at home on census night, and it seems likely he was the Timothée Mourant buried  on May 8th 1838 in St Martin's, (although we can't yet be sure that burial wasn't his father's, as both men had the same name). There are several others present who might be her siblings- Mary, 17, who is a Mantua Maker; John, 15, who is a Carpenter; and Jane who is 13. 

Thomas, 24, is described as a carpenter, and is living at home with his parents Francis and Susan Payn. Several potential siblings are also in the same house- Charles, 28, who is a farmer; Sophia, 26; Susan, 18; and Francis, 16, who is a tailor.

One thing already obvious from these census documents is their very "English" nature. Wives are generally given the same surname as their husband. This differs from the family's church records which are often in French, and where women are generally given their maiden names. For example, this is the 1817 baptism record for Thomas Payn, where his father's name is given as François, and his mother is listed as Susanne De Gruchy.

Thomas Payn and Elizabeth Mourant married in April 1847 in the parish of St Helier. They are found in the 1851 census living in the parish of St Martin. Again, no house name or address is listed, but this time, the relationship with the Head of the house is described. Thomas is 33, and a carpenter, and Elizabeth is 29, is listed as Elizabeth Payn, and at this stage she has no occupation named. There are two children, a son Thomas who is 3, and a daughter Eliza J who is 1. The birthplace for all the Payn family members is given as St Martin, Jersey. There are five other people listed in the household. There is Francis Mourant, an aunt; Eliza J Quethville, a lodger of independent means; Felix Laurens, a widowed farm labourer from France, and two children, Placedie and Marie Laurens, who were both born in St Martin.

By the time of the 1861 census, Thomas and Elizabeth are listed with four sons in their household. The house they are living in is called Les Ruettes, and it is in the village of Faldouet in the parish of St Martin. Indeed the family today have a postcard of this house, organised and sent by "Cousin Hilda". The house is still standing in Jersey, and I was lucky enough to visit it after being given information about it by my cousin Maurice Payn.

Les Ruettes, Village of Faldouet, Parish of St Martin, Jersey

In the 1861 census, Thomas is listed as a sailor, and Elizabeth has her maiden name of Mourant used. The four sons listed are Thomas (John or jnr?) aged 13 and a sailor; John aged 8, and Fr Davis aged 6, both scholars; and Helier aged 3, described as a child. In this census, Thomas's birthplace is listed correctly as St Saviour, and the others are listed as being born in St Martin. There are no lodgers or workers in the house in this census. 

The four sons listed on this 1861 census fails to tell a tale of child mortality. Between the time of the 1851 and 1861 census, three children of Thomas and Elizabeth have died, and they are listed on the family tombstone. Eliza Jane, who was on the 1851 census, died in 1852, aged 1 year and 11 months. Another Francis Davis was born after the census in 1851, and died November 18th 1854, aged 3 years and 3 months. (Just a day after his death, our great-grandfather was born, and was given the same names of Francis Davis.) A second girl also died in May 1857, named Elizabeth Jane, aged only 1 year and 3 months.


By the time of the 1871 census, three sons are at home. Thomas, aged 54, is now listed as a ship's carpenter, and Elizabeth, aged 49, is again given the occupation of School Teacher (and the surname Payn). Both John, 18, and Francis D, 16, are listed as Mariners, and Helier, aged 13, is said to be a Shoe Maker. The family is still living in Les Ruettes, in the village of Faldouet.

 
In the 1881 census, there are only three people in the household, which is listed as being in Faldouet. Elizabeth is listed as a widow and a Schoolmistress. (We know from the memorial stone in St Martin's parish, that Thomas died in 1874 aged 57 years.) Her son Helier is aged 23, unmarried, and a Shoemaker. There is one lodger, Mary Carrel, who is aged 59 and a Dressmaker. We know that Francis Davis left home and voyaged to New Zealand, arriving on the ship Mermaid in 1874.

Elizabeth died in February 1890 aged 69 years, and is buried in St Martin's Parish. Helier did not inherit Les Ruettes, as we have evidence from court records that Cousin Hilda, the only child of Thomas Jean, sailor, who was the oldest child of Thomas and Elizabeth, sold it as owner with her mother, in 1908.

From then on, it appears that we can trace Helier as living in different households. In 1891 he is living in Trinity Parish with the family of Eugène F Laurent, who was an agricultural labourer from France, and Helier is still listed as being single, and a shoe maker. Perhaps this Laurent is related to the widowed Felix Laurens, also from France, who was a lodger with the Payn family in the 1851 census?

In the 1901 census there is a Helier Payn aged 40 living in the household of Joshua Mourant as a servant and as a farm labourer, whose birthplace was St Martin's, Jersey. And in the 1911 census we find a Helier Payn, aged 52, and single, birthplace of St Martin's, Jersey, living with the family of Alfred Gaudin aged 28, as a servant and 'Cowman on Farm', in the parish of St Saviour. (It seems that Elizabeth Mourant might have been a Gaudin descendant though this has yet to be confirmed, so perhaps these were cousins that Helier was living with.) Obviously more work needs to be done to be certain that this Helier, is 'our' Helier, but the details of age and parish of birth make it seem likely.

In my DNA matches I have been surprised to find no matches that look like they come from the siblings of my great-grandfather Francis Davis Payn.  But it appears from the censuses that perhaps our numerous descendants via his marriage to Johanna Scettrini, are the only ones that exist at this level of the family. (By contrast, there are known distant cousin matches from a sibling of Thomas Payn.)

Three siblings died as young children, but Francis Davis had three other brothers who lived to adulthood. It will be interesting to check the 1921 census when it is released to see whether Helier is still alive, and where he might be living. Perhaps he neither married nor had descendants. We know that the eldest sibling, Thomas Jean, had one daughter, our 'cousin Hilda', but he died at sea in 1893. Cousin Hilda also emigrated to New Zealand, but died in Tamahere near Hamilton as a single woman without any children. John who was born in 1852, died at sea in 1881 when he was aged about 29 years old, and at present, I don't know if he married or had children. There is more to learn and follow up...

With so much Irish ancestry, with census data in general limited to the 1901 and 1911 censuses, it has been quite a novelty to be able to follow family members through from the 1941 to the 1911 censuses in Jersey. It has been interesting to see how the format has changed over the years, and what kind of information has been obtained. It is also interesting to wonder about the differences in the 1911 census questions between Jersey and Ireland.

Thursday, 18 January 2018

Frank PAYN & Johanna SCETTRINI

Now it is time to briefly introduce my great-grandparents from Kumara, my maternal grandmother's parents- Francis Davis Payn, and Johanna Scettrini.

(Originals of these photos are presently held by Joe Payn, Kumara.)

Francis Davis PAYN was born in November 1854 in St Martin's Parish on the island of Jersey in the Channel Islands. His parents were Thomas Payn and Elizabeth MOURANT. (Their headstone is in French, so I assume Francis Davis was probably able to speak French.) Originally some of us thought he was born in 1851, but it turns out he had an older brother of the same name who died aged 3. Our Francis Davis was born the very next day, and given the same name.

Johanna SCETTRINI was born in 1865 in Australia. She was baptised in St Kilian's (Catholic) Church in Bendigo, and her residence was given as Sailor's Gully. Her parents were Giuseppe Scettrini from Corippo, Ticino, in southern Switzerland, and Catherine HENEBERRY from Ballyporeen in Co Tipperary, Ireland. When she was young, Johanna's parents moved to follow the goldmining on the West Coast, and settled first at Big Dam/ Waimea/ Goldsborough. They later moved to Kumara.

Francis and Johanna married in Kumara in 1886 at the Registrar's Office. He was a goldminer, and she had been doing some domestic duties for the Seddons, who presented the couple with a large clock on their marriage. Frank's residence was given as "Dillmans", and Johanna's as Kumara.
(The spelling of Johanna's surname appears to be written as Scetrini at her wedding- one of many spellings that differ from the original name of Scettrini back in Corippo.)

Frank and Johanna had 11 children that I am aware of:- Thomas- 1886; Catherine (Kate)-1888; Elizabeth (Lizzie) -1890; Mary Ann- 1891; Rose (my grandmother)- 1893; John Francis (Jack)- 1895; Hilda Selina- 1897; Joseph Helier (Joe)- 1899; Matilda (Tilly)- 1901; Albert Edward- 1903; Francis Davis (Frank)- 1908. (I am grateful to cousins Patricia Milne (nee Lalor), Pat Wallace, and Maurice Payn for help researching the details for these children.)

Frank Payn was very involved in the local community. In Papers Past there are references to him as a goldminer, and he was also  one of the Kumara Hospital trustees. Payn's Gully is named after him, and there is a track that Joe Payn has been very involved with creating (at the Boundary Rd/ Londonderry Rock end of Kumara township.)

Frank Payn died in 1929 in the hospital in Hokitika, aged 74. Johanna lived to be 93 and died in November 1957 in Tasman Home, Greymouth.
Greymouth Evening Star 22/11/57


Frank and Johanna are both buried in the cemetery in Hokitika.

Wednesday, 17 January 2018

Payn-Mourant headstone

Switching tack here- going back to tidying up the folders of papers I already have about the Payn line of my family, from Jersey.

Just as a 'taster'- this is the headstone of my maternal great-great-grandparents, Thomas Payn and Elizabeth Mourant, in the graveyard of St Martin's parish on the Island of Jersey in the Channel Islands-  Again I am thankful to Maurice Payn, without whose help I would probably not have found this headstone.


One of the interesting things on this headstone is that their young child, Francis Davis, who died on 18 November 1854, is buried here. My great-grandfather was born the very next day after his death, and was also named Francis Davis Payn.

Monday, 22 October 2012

List of ancestors

I know this blog has had hardly any attention- it's turn will come!- but I have some info on some old web pages I must transfer over here.

Here is a list of ancestors back to 4X great grandparents where I know them.

Sunday, 7 November 2010

Eight great-grandparents

Patrick RIORDAN was born in Curraheen, Co Limerick, Ireland, sometime in the late 1840s, the child of John Riordan and Bridget QUANE. He seems to have arrived in New Zealand aged about 21, c1868.

Mary BURKE was born in the Parish of Inchture, Perth, Scotland, on 21 August 1862. She was the first child for her Irish father, Martin Burke, who left Co Mayo around the time of the Famine as a child, and her Scottish mother, Ann PHILP. She emigrated with her parents to New Zealand aboard the "Mermaid" when she was still only a toddler, arriving in Lyttelton on 16 February 1864.

 Patrick Riordan married Mary Burke on 11 April 1882 at the Catholic Church in Lincoln. 

  
Jeremiah MALONE and Margaret RIORDAN (no photo) were the parents of my grandmother, Margaret MALONE, who was born in Ballinadrideen, Ballyhea Parish, near Charleville, close to the border of Co. Cork and Co. Limerick. Another of their daughters, Bridget,  also emigrated to New Zealand.





  


James LALOR was born in Co. Kilkenny Ireland, c 1840, to John and Mary Lalor. He seems to have reached New Zealand c 1866, becoming a goldminer at South Beach. 

Catherine ROWLAND was born 26 August 1845 in Heidelberg, Melbourne, to Christopher Rowland (who was probably a convict from Cork) and Margaret ARBUCKLE. Her younger sister Margaret also later came to New Zealand.


James and Catherine married in 1871 in the Catholic Chapel in Greymouth.


  

 
Francis Davis PAYN was born 1854 in "Les Ruettes", St Martin's parish, Jersey, Channel Islands. He was the son of Thomas Payn and Elizabeth MOURANT. He arrived in Canterbury in 1874 on the "Dilharee" with Philip Payn, and was one of three "Larrikins" who discovered the Larrikins lead in 1878 in Kumara. 

Johanna SCETTRINI was born in Sandhurst (Bendigo) in 1865, the eldest daughter of Giuseppe Scettrini (from Corippo, Ticino, Switzerland) and Catherine HENEBERRY (from Ballyporeen, Co Tipperary, Ireland.) The family moved to the West Coast and after living in Waimea (Goldsborough) for a time, settled in Kumara. 

Johanna and Frank were married in 1886 in Kumara.