I know a lot about my maternal great-grandfather James Lalor on the West Coast in New Zealand. He was active on various local boards and committees, and there are many references to him on Papers Past. I am connected with various lines of his Lalor descendants in New Zealand via DNA.
But I know very little about his life in Ireland before he emigrated. I know he came from Co Kilkenny, and from his death registration I know that his father was John Lalor and his mother's name was Mary. I don't have a more precise location for him in Ireland, and nor do I know his mother's maiden name. Nor does Ancestry provide any suggestions for further ancestors via ThruLines.
One thing I have learned about him from an article in Entre Nous- a parliamentary journal (16 Nov 1901)- is that he was a "blood relation to two men of celebrity". He was a “full cousin” of the celebrated Irish orator Richard Lalor Shiel; and Peter Lalor, later speaker of Victorian Legislative Assembly, was a ‘distant relation’. (Our James was said to be in Bendigo when the Eureka riots took place at Ballarat.)
James Lalor was clearly a man who had been educated when growing up in Co Kilkenny. He started his career in the Post Office, he managed a large butchery shop in Melbourne, and he was a Parliamentary Messenger in New Zealand. He was born sometime between 1837 and 1844, and seems to have headed off to Australia for the goldrushes when he was still quite young.
Using Google, I found a free ebook of “The Speeches of the Right Honourable Richard Lalor Shiel.” This had information about Richard Lalor Shiel’s connection with the Lalor family. He married ‘the daughter of Mr John Lalor of Crenagh, in the county of Tipperary, the widow of Mr Edward Power, of Gurteen’, and thus became connected by property with the county of Tipperary.
There is further information about Richard Lalor Shiel in a wikisource database that states that Richard Lalor Shiel was born 17 Aug 1791, several decades before our James Lalor. His first wife died in 1822, and in "1830 he married Mrs Anastasia Power, the daughter and coheiress of John Lalor, esq., of Crenagh. Co Tipperary."
There is information on the NUI Galway website about landed estates that includes information about the Lalor and Power-Lalor families. In 1837 Richard Lalor Shiel is recorded as proprietor of Long Orchard in Co Tipperary.
At this stage we can only wonder at how our James Lalor's father John Lalor is connected to “John Lalor, esq, of Crenagh, Co Tipperary” and Anastasia, the “daughter and coheiress of John Lalor esq.” Whether John Lalor, the father of our James, is a son or nephew of that John Lalor esq remains to be discovered, but presumably the connection is reasonably close to gain a ‘full cousin’ description.
I have discovered that there is a genealogy manuscript in the NLI: “Reference #27790: A pedigree of the family of Lalor of Cregg and Longorchard, Co. Tipperary, compiled by Thomas Lalor Cooke, of Birr 1859. Ms.1674” However, I don't know whether it contains anything that would shed light on our James' ancestry and location. I approached a couple of researchers in 2019 about getting a 'look-up' of this document, but it seemed they were all very busy with bigger requests. Then I thought I myself might manage to look up this document in July this year while I was in Ireland- but of course such travel was not to be this year.
Griffith's Valuations might provide another avenue to narrow down where James Lalor was from, but the name John Lalor was not uncommon, and I currently don't have information to narrow down the locality. I am wondering whether the fact that James always just gave Co Kilkenny as his place of origin perhaps indicates he comes from somewhere close to the City of Kilkenny, in which case Dunmore might be a possible townland. Or maybe he is from a townland closer to Longorchard in Co Tipperary.
I am not sure that I will ever solve this 'brick wall'- but other brick walls in Ireland have eventually tumbled down, so you never know!
Showing posts with label Co Kilkenny. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Co Kilkenny. Show all posts
Tuesday, 9 June 2020
Friday, 27 March 2020
James Lalor- South Beach
LALOR, James - some key facts
James LALOR was born in Co Kilkenny, Ireland, c1837-1838, to John and Mary Lalor.
He was in Bendigo when the Eureka Stockade riots took place in Ballarat (in 1854) and was described as a ‘distant relation’ of Peter Lalor who was prominent in the rebellion. According to his obituary, he was a butcher in Melbourne, and was a manager in Mr Pettie’s large butchery shop for several years.
In his obituary it also says that he sailed in the ship ‘Lightning’ and followed the early gold rushes at Addison’s Flat on the West Coast, but never met with much success there. (Gold was discovered at Addison’s Flat in May, 1867.)
By 1871 he was living in the Greymouth district, and on 14th September 1871, he married Catherine ROWLAND in the Roman Catholic Chapel, Greymouth. He was described as a bachelor and a miner, with a stated ‘length of residence’ of 2½ years. A marriage notice appeared in the Grey River Argus.
Catherine and James had six children. Their first daughter, Margaret Jane, was born 22 August 1872, while they were residing at South Beach, and subsequent children were named John, Mary, Robert, James and Thomas.
James mined for gold at South Beach. On the Westland electoral roll of 1911, James Lalor, of Paroa, is listed as a miner, and in 1914 on the Westland supplementary roll he is listed as “6182 Lalor James, senr. South Beach, miner.”
In April 1883 James is listed as one of four men applying for a lease of 8 acres of land at South Beach, for a period of 15 years, to be worked by ground sluicing. The company formed was to be called “The Rising Sun Gold-mining Company”. One of the other company members was Robert Delaney, who had been named as a witness at James Lalor’s wedding 12 years earlier.
James Lalor was clearly accustomed to public speaking, and many references can be found to him in ‘Papers Past’, performing varied public roles. A second, more detailed account of his life has many of these references attached.
James Lalor was confident when taking a public stand for the rights of miners. In 1886 when a public meeting was held about leasing of South Beach lands, James Lalor was one of those involved in the discussions, and he proposed a motion “That a petition be presented to the Waste Lands Board, and a copy forwarded to the Honorable the Minister of Mines, showing that by the sale or leasing of any land within the Paroa district that the miners would suffer severely, inasmuch as their very costly dams and water-races would become valueless, which should be viewed as a calamity to be averted.”
In his later years James also became a 'Parliamentary Messenger'. An article in 1901 in New Zealand Free Lance described him in favourable terms, noting that among the messengers in the recent session of the House of Representatives ‘there was one at least who bore a historic name and is a blood relation to two men who have achieved celebrity'. The writer told us that James Lalor was a modest man: 'Yet, Mr James Lalor, who came up from Greymouth to wear the livery of Parliament and who has just got back to the Coast this week to resume his avocation as a gold miner could boast of his family connections if he were not far too modest a man to say anything about himself at all.' The writer then said that James Lalor was a ‘full cousin’ of the celebrated Irish orator, Richard Lalor Sheil.
In 1992, my aunty, Edith Lemon (nee Lalor), showed me where the old residence of James and Catherine Lalor stood at South Beach. It was rather derelict, but had clearly been a rather grand villa in its time. I am told that it is no longer standing.
James Lalor died at South Beach on 3 October 1916, of malignant disease of the throat. In the Argus he was described as ‘well and favourably known throughout the West Coast’ and a ‘true and devoted father’. On October 5th, Catherine Lalor invited friends to attend the funeral for her late husband James, leaving from her residence at South Beach for the Greymouth Cemetery.
He is buried in Karoro Cemetery in Greymouth, together with his wife Catherine, and two grandchildren who died as infants.
Compiled by Margaret Riordan, great- granddaughter of James Lalor snr,
27 March 2020
I have various documents and references to the facts listed above, but my footnotes didn't come through on the cut and paste to the blog. Here they are, included as pictures.
James LALOR was born in Co Kilkenny, Ireland, c1837-1838, to John and Mary Lalor.
He was in Bendigo when the Eureka Stockade riots took place in Ballarat (in 1854) and was described as a ‘distant relation’ of Peter Lalor who was prominent in the rebellion. According to his obituary, he was a butcher in Melbourne, and was a manager in Mr Pettie’s large butchery shop for several years.
In his obituary it also says that he sailed in the ship ‘Lightning’ and followed the early gold rushes at Addison’s Flat on the West Coast, but never met with much success there. (Gold was discovered at Addison’s Flat in May, 1867.)
By 1871 he was living in the Greymouth district, and on 14th September 1871, he married Catherine ROWLAND in the Roman Catholic Chapel, Greymouth. He was described as a bachelor and a miner, with a stated ‘length of residence’ of 2½ years. A marriage notice appeared in the Grey River Argus.
Catherine and James had six children. Their first daughter, Margaret Jane, was born 22 August 1872, while they were residing at South Beach, and subsequent children were named John, Mary, Robert, James and Thomas.
James mined for gold at South Beach. On the Westland electoral roll of 1911, James Lalor, of Paroa, is listed as a miner, and in 1914 on the Westland supplementary roll he is listed as “6182 Lalor James, senr. South Beach, miner.”
In April 1883 James is listed as one of four men applying for a lease of 8 acres of land at South Beach, for a period of 15 years, to be worked by ground sluicing. The company formed was to be called “The Rising Sun Gold-mining Company”. One of the other company members was Robert Delaney, who had been named as a witness at James Lalor’s wedding 12 years earlier.
James Lalor was clearly accustomed to public speaking, and many references can be found to him in ‘Papers Past’, performing varied public roles. A second, more detailed account of his life has many of these references attached.
James Lalor was confident when taking a public stand for the rights of miners. In 1886 when a public meeting was held about leasing of South Beach lands, James Lalor was one of those involved in the discussions, and he proposed a motion “That a petition be presented to the Waste Lands Board, and a copy forwarded to the Honorable the Minister of Mines, showing that by the sale or leasing of any land within the Paroa district that the miners would suffer severely, inasmuch as their very costly dams and water-races would become valueless, which should be viewed as a calamity to be averted.”
In his later years James also became a 'Parliamentary Messenger'. An article in 1901 in New Zealand Free Lance described him in favourable terms, noting that among the messengers in the recent session of the House of Representatives ‘there was one at least who bore a historic name and is a blood relation to two men who have achieved celebrity'. The writer told us that James Lalor was a modest man: 'Yet, Mr James Lalor, who came up from Greymouth to wear the livery of Parliament and who has just got back to the Coast this week to resume his avocation as a gold miner could boast of his family connections if he were not far too modest a man to say anything about himself at all.' The writer then said that James Lalor was a ‘full cousin’ of the celebrated Irish orator, Richard Lalor Sheil.
In 1992, my aunty, Edith Lemon (nee Lalor), showed me where the old residence of James and Catherine Lalor stood at South Beach. It was rather derelict, but had clearly been a rather grand villa in its time. I am told that it is no longer standing.
James Lalor died at South Beach on 3 October 1916, of malignant disease of the throat. In the Argus he was described as ‘well and favourably known throughout the West Coast’ and a ‘true and devoted father’. On October 5th, Catherine Lalor invited friends to attend the funeral for her late husband James, leaving from her residence at South Beach for the Greymouth Cemetery.
He is buried in Karoro Cemetery in Greymouth, together with his wife Catherine, and two grandchildren who died as infants.
Compiled by Margaret Riordan, great- granddaughter of James Lalor snr,
27 March 2020
I have various documents and references to the facts listed above, but my footnotes didn't come through on the cut and paste to the blog. Here they are, included as pictures.
Friday, 4 October 2019
DNA test done
Finally I decided to get a DNA test done. I had my reservations for a long time- around privacy, around 'unexpected outcomes' and what I might have to do about them... but in the end I went to a few lectures about DNA in genealogy and how it was a new tool that offered many benefits. And I went ahead and did a DNA test with Ancestry who have the biggest database of matches. Thanks to Michelle Patient and also to Fiona Brooker who delivered the lectures I attended, including such informative material. And also to the Feilding group of NZSG who organised the day-long workshop with Michelle that I attended, and to Auckland Libraries who had Fiona and Michelle speaking at their weekend genealogy expo. Interestingly, in both places, I seemed to be among the minority who hadn't had their DNA tested.
At one of the courses I went to, patientgenie talked about the importance of building a 'wide tree', so while I waited for my test kit to arrive from overseas, then make its journey to Dublin and through the testing process, I built a wide tree. The 'wideness', including as many siblings of my grandparents, grt-grandparents etc as I knew, was to show some instant benefits once I got my results and my DNA matches, and I recommend it. (Though I have to admit I built it quickly, and might have relied on a few too many Ancestry 'hints', so definitely have to re-check it all soon!!)
It came as quite a surprise to see how many DNA matches I had- 308 at fourth cousin level or closer. And though I was certain that my parents were truly my real DNA parents, I was glad to find matches in all lines of my tree that were what I had expected.
Some matches were easier to identify with family lines than others. Because I had built a good tree and linked it to my DNA, ThruLines even helped place quite a few matches in the relevant parts of the tree.
The first, and so far only, contact that has come from someone else, came from this 'wide' tree. Her husband was descended from a sibling of my 2X grt-grandfather- so our common ancestors are our 3X great-grandparents. That makes her husband my 4th cousin once removed, and we share 25cM and 3 segments of DNA. I was astounded to realise that distant cousins like that could still share enough DNA to show clear connections. She has done a lot of research on our family lines, and we were able to share info to build our knowledge about "Cousin Hilda" who had come from Jersey as a single woman to join Payn family here in New Zealand.
I looked at my DNA list and decided on a few people I would message. There were a couple of surnames I recognised as being likely 3rd cousins on the Riordan side in Christchurch. I have already had a reply from one. It turns out the circle has fully turned for him, and he has been living in Ireland for the last 20 years, not all that far from Ballylanders, where the Riordan farm was. (He is going to explore!)
I was lucky to have one maternal first cousin and one paternal first cousin who had tested. So by looking at shared matches with one or other of them, I could divide my matches down maternal/paternal lines quite easily.
I decided to go on a hunt for paternal Riordan matches that might have a link to Ballylanders. It had taken me almost a year to pinpoint the likely origin of our "Curraheen" as being Ballylanders, but I was still only about 98% sure I hadn't barked up a wrong genealogical tree of similar names. However, in the process of my long search, I had some familiarity with other local surnames. I messaged a few likely looking suspects. Bingo- the Creagh on the adjoining farm has quite a few DNA matches with us. An O'Donnell match replied and was able to helpfully push back my tree by one generation by telling me the common Quane ancestors we shared.
This is info I got from Griffiths. I've drawn around farm #20, the Riordan one. You might just manage to see the Carheen fort in the top right corner of the farm. (Farms #11 and #12 are Quain ones.) Next to it are farms #18 and #19, which are Creagh farms. I wasn't surprised to find Creagh matches, and I feel I have now confirmed that Ballylanders is in fact our parish of origin.
So what next? I am delighted with my paternal finds so far, but in a sense they were easy enough, as I was able to bring all my genealogical knowledge about the family to examine the matches. It is a different story with my maternal Lalor line though. I know only that my Lalor 2x-grt-grandparents were John Lalor and Mary (maiden surname unknown,) and that they were from Co Kilkenny somewhere. It seems like I will have to be much more systematic when searching my matches for likely Lalor connections. I will plod away, and am hopeful that DNA will eventually help me through the Lalor brickwall!
At one of the courses I went to, patientgenie talked about the importance of building a 'wide tree', so while I waited for my test kit to arrive from overseas, then make its journey to Dublin and through the testing process, I built a wide tree. The 'wideness', including as many siblings of my grandparents, grt-grandparents etc as I knew, was to show some instant benefits once I got my results and my DNA matches, and I recommend it. (Though I have to admit I built it quickly, and might have relied on a few too many Ancestry 'hints', so definitely have to re-check it all soon!!)
It came as quite a surprise to see how many DNA matches I had- 308 at fourth cousin level or closer. And though I was certain that my parents were truly my real DNA parents, I was glad to find matches in all lines of my tree that were what I had expected.
Some matches were easier to identify with family lines than others. Because I had built a good tree and linked it to my DNA, ThruLines even helped place quite a few matches in the relevant parts of the tree.
The first, and so far only, contact that has come from someone else, came from this 'wide' tree. Her husband was descended from a sibling of my 2X grt-grandfather- so our common ancestors are our 3X great-grandparents. That makes her husband my 4th cousin once removed, and we share 25cM and 3 segments of DNA. I was astounded to realise that distant cousins like that could still share enough DNA to show clear connections. She has done a lot of research on our family lines, and we were able to share info to build our knowledge about "Cousin Hilda" who had come from Jersey as a single woman to join Payn family here in New Zealand.
 |
| Cousin Hilda Payn |
I was lucky to have one maternal first cousin and one paternal first cousin who had tested. So by looking at shared matches with one or other of them, I could divide my matches down maternal/paternal lines quite easily.
I decided to go on a hunt for paternal Riordan matches that might have a link to Ballylanders. It had taken me almost a year to pinpoint the likely origin of our "Curraheen" as being Ballylanders, but I was still only about 98% sure I hadn't barked up a wrong genealogical tree of similar names. However, in the process of my long search, I had some familiarity with other local surnames. I messaged a few likely looking suspects. Bingo- the Creagh on the adjoining farm has quite a few DNA matches with us. An O'Donnell match replied and was able to helpfully push back my tree by one generation by telling me the common Quane ancestors we shared.
So what next? I am delighted with my paternal finds so far, but in a sense they were easy enough, as I was able to bring all my genealogical knowledge about the family to examine the matches. It is a different story with my maternal Lalor line though. I know only that my Lalor 2x-grt-grandparents were John Lalor and Mary (maiden surname unknown,) and that they were from Co Kilkenny somewhere. It seems like I will have to be much more systematic when searching my matches for likely Lalor connections. I will plod away, and am hopeful that DNA will eventually help me through the Lalor brickwall!
Sunday, 2 June 2019
Passing things on...
This year I have two main things I want to achieve with my family genealogy.
The first is to get a booklet together that 'introduces' the family story to our newer generations. At this stage I'm not yet half-way through what I want to share on the paternal side- words and pictures- but hopefully the booklet will be a Christmas present this year rather than next!
The second thing I want to do is to get going on some proper organisation of all my family photos- both recent and older and even photocopies I have of very old photos. If I can digitise them, hopefully they are more likely to last over time to reach somebody interested in more family research.
Of course, I haven't stopped trying to follow up some new leads as well. One thing I really want to do is track down where exactly our Lalor family came from in Co Kilkenny. There is a really useful article in Papers Past that states that my great-grandfather, James Lalor, is a 'full cousin' to the famous Irish orator, Richard Lalor Shiel. I have found a 'pedigree' on the National Library of Ireland site that seems to relate to this exact family in 1855, and hope to get it 'looked up' soon- but it seems like the researchers in Dublin are currently overloaded with business. Maybe I will have to look it up myself on a visit. I suspect 'my' Lalor connection will be turn out to be just over the county border from the Templetuohy area- if I actually can break through this brick wall!
The first is to get a booklet together that 'introduces' the family story to our newer generations. At this stage I'm not yet half-way through what I want to share on the paternal side- words and pictures- but hopefully the booklet will be a Christmas present this year rather than next!
The second thing I want to do is to get going on some proper organisation of all my family photos- both recent and older and even photocopies I have of very old photos. If I can digitise them, hopefully they are more likely to last over time to reach somebody interested in more family research.
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| Dad, second from right |
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| Yours truly and sister |
Saturday, 30 March 2019
James Lalor- origins?
I have written before on this blog about my maternal great-grandfather, James Lalor. And I also blogged a little info about him that I discovered in the parliamentary journal New Zealand Free Lance in 1901.
More recently I found an obituary for him that gave more facts about his life that I hadn't known before. He had come to Melbourne at quite a young age, and was a butcher there, soon managing Mr Pettie's large butchery shop. He then sailed in the ship Lightning for New Zealand. He followed the early rushes at Addison's Flat but met with little success.
He was appointed a messenger at Parliament, and filled that position for fourteen years, receiving an address and letter from Sir Joseph Ward when he retired. He was a keen follower of the trotting world, and owned a couple of horses.
His obituary states that he came from Kilkenny, and that was 79 years old at his death in 1916. I know only a few other things about his origins. His father was John Lalor, and his mother was "Mary" but I don't know her maiden name. From the Free Lance article I learned that he was a distant cousin of Peter Lalor of Eureka Stockade fame, and a 'full cousin' of the famous orator Richard Lalor Shiel. It seems clear from various newspaper entries that James Lalor was a clever speaker himself, both literate and educated.
Emboldened by recent success in working out where exactly my Riordan ancestors came from in Co Limerick, I feel I should now put some effort into working out where exactly James Lalor came from. However, for Patrick Riordan, I knew the surnames of both his parents, and I had a townland, Curraheen. I also knew whereabouts in Co Limerick some of his cousins hailed from.
I expect that a search for James Lalor's origins will be more difficult, and since he was possibly born around 1837, his birth is likely not included in parish records. His full cousin Richard Lalor Shiel seemed to be more based in Waterford, which would indicate our James' family was perhaps based more in the south of the county of Kilkenny. But then I think that Peter Lalor, his 'distant' cousin was from Abbyleix, just over the northern border of Co Kilkenny in Co Laois. I will spend some time searching, but this might be a 'brick wall'. Will blog again if one day I learn more.
More recently I found an obituary for him that gave more facts about his life that I hadn't known before. He had come to Melbourne at quite a young age, and was a butcher there, soon managing Mr Pettie's large butchery shop. He then sailed in the ship Lightning for New Zealand. He followed the early rushes at Addison's Flat but met with little success.
He was appointed a messenger at Parliament, and filled that position for fourteen years, receiving an address and letter from Sir Joseph Ward when he retired. He was a keen follower of the trotting world, and owned a couple of horses.
His obituary states that he came from Kilkenny, and that was 79 years old at his death in 1916. I know only a few other things about his origins. His father was John Lalor, and his mother was "Mary" but I don't know her maiden name. From the Free Lance article I learned that he was a distant cousin of Peter Lalor of Eureka Stockade fame, and a 'full cousin' of the famous orator Richard Lalor Shiel. It seems clear from various newspaper entries that James Lalor was a clever speaker himself, both literate and educated.
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| The old Lalor homestead at South Beach, Greymouth, on the West Coast. | Photo | taken 1992 |
I expect that a search for James Lalor's origins will be more difficult, and since he was possibly born around 1837, his birth is likely not included in parish records. His full cousin Richard Lalor Shiel seemed to be more based in Waterford, which would indicate our James' family was perhaps based more in the south of the county of Kilkenny. But then I think that Peter Lalor, his 'distant' cousin was from Abbyleix, just over the northern border of Co Kilkenny in Co Laois. I will spend some time searching, but this might be a 'brick wall'. Will blog again if one day I learn more.
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